Curse

Yanman.be · Dec 24, 2007, 06:15 PM // 18:15

<insert any non LOD assassin combo>

Exhausting Assault never gets used, ever.

Wildi · Dec 24, 2007, 06:16 PM // 18:16

hero monk standing in traps and healing himself over and over, instead of moving out

**cosyfiep** · Dec 24, 2007, 06:18 PM // 18:18

hm, my sosuke will use savannah heat anytime he has the energy to use it...even on a ranger spirit!

Vekk is my biggest woe....even when FLAGGED he still runs into mobs (on guard mode)....and zhed has already been mentioned.

I taught my dunky to use heal party....we had all just gotten smacked with rising bile and he starts to heal everyone separately...I stop him, click heal party and the next time we get smacked with it...he actually used it without me clicking it for him!! I was impressed. (have since replaced it with divine healing I think).

Ruby Lightheart · Dec 24, 2007, 06:28 PM // 18:28

This is not a shot at any posters or the author of this posting string. It is mearly my observations and input.

First thing you must rememeber is that Heros were never designed to run like live players. They are merely NPCs you can take along with the exception that you choose whta skills and weapons they carry. AI means Artificial Intelligance so dont expect the programing to think like a live player.

Second, you have to do some kind of skill activation management. If you dont want your Hero Ele to use metor shower every chance its available, deactivate the skill till you are ready for it to be used

Third, never put touch or short range skills on any hero you dont want running onto the front lines. This is especially crucial when dealing with Monk, Ranger and Assasin heros. Skill such as Throw Dirt and any touch healing skills could spell doom for your hero.

Fourth, be prepared to manually activate your heros skills, stances etc. If your hero is gonna be casting alot of wards, stances or other simular buffs, be prepared to activate them yourself before a big fight to ensure a more favorable outcome.

Fifth, before going into combat with other live players, if you are brining along a hero make sure your team knows what skills your hero has. They may have valuable tips that couldhelp you improve your hero.

And Finally, dont be afraid to ask on the forums for help creating a hero's template.

Deadslap · Dec 24, 2007, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Vekk and Zhed continuously use [skill]Meteor Shower[/skill] on a group of 1 or 2 enemy's. I can't tell you how many times I'll see this in 1 quest.

In the Jokanur Diggings mission, whenever I equip any touch skills on my monks, they always stand under the stomper and get crushed to death.

Torqual · Dec 24, 2007, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Great thread.

Building AI is an art. What humans have that AI doesn't is the ability to anticipate. You can take preventative action and prioritise use of skills based on the tactical situation. You can discriminate between types of opponent, using your skills that anticipate or negate theirs. Humans however, have a problem that AI doesn't: crappy reactions - and lag. I've seen the AI interrupting 1/2 second cast skills. The AI owns at interrupting.

I'd like to add a few to the list which demonstrate what I am saying:

AEGIS:- A human will pre-cast this just before the melee and missiles slam into the party, whereas AI prot monks will wait a good 3-4 seconds before they decide it's a good idea. Not bad programming really, there's just no way to give the AI the predictive insight that a human has.

BACKFIRE/EMPATHY:- AI is totally indiscriminate in the use of these hexes. Backfire goes onto warriors and Empathy onto monks. A waste of energy.

Does this mean that AI Prot monks and AI Mesmers fail? Absolutely not.

Just know when to micro (like with Aegis) and know what skills to give to heroes that either don't require discrimination or do require reactions.

I use Norgu quite a lot with Conjure Phantasm (which he spams) and a load of Inspiration Magic-based interrupts for energy. The thing is, if you give him spell-interrupts, he can't use these on people that ... er.... don't use spells. But giving him Backfire is baaaaaaaaad. :-)

Same applies to an AI Necro. Spiteful Spirit works on everything... Reckless Haste, Price of Failure, Soul Leech.... these are just asking too much of their pitiful brains.

A couple more things I look out for with AI hero builds....

Skills with high(ish) cost and very short recharge are not a good thing. Give your AI Prot monk Spirit Bond and he'll spam it to death, spending 10e every 2 seconds.... energy pool doesn't last long. I tend to give them things like Shielding Hands, PS, SoA that take longer to recharge... just to give a more balanced bar.

Also, I tend to find a monster that I really cannot abide, steal its build off wiki, and give this to my equivalent hero with a few tweaks. The reason for this is that I know the AI is using the skills well, based on how much I hate that monster. For example: Sandstorm Crag + Stoneflesh Mandragor + Warden of Earth would be a real supermonster from hell. A monster that rips through your team with AOE, can't be killed, and keeps knocking you down. So, that's why my Zhed runs Sandstorm, Churning Earth, Stoneflesh Aura, Ward Against Melee and Stoning/Ebon Hawk. I don't have Stone Daggers though because I find that without this, the AI alternates Stoning/Ebon Hawk a lot better.

genofreek · Dec 24, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Sometimes if I feel like spicing it up, bring some interrupters just for kicks. What I really love doing though is giving my MM jagged bones and death nova, he can micro it like nothing.

Oh my god, SO seconded. Give him some sort of energy management (I found out the hard way that Consume Corpse is so not the way to go for hero necs, though XD) and watch those bleed bombs drop. It got to the point where I would flag Olias, wait until his minions had aggro, flag him back, then stroll in to mop up the few sad shreds the undead left behind.

They also have some insane interrupt abilities, too.

Pretty much my only big irritation with heroes is when I flag them back and they STILL manage to rush something I'm only highlighting. I don't even have to call, just click a foe and feel the wind in my hair as they all stampede to be the first ones at it.

Jora, Koss, and Zhed are HOPELESS when it comes to obeying the flag. I'm thinking it might be a warrior thing, because Talon's not much better.

Haven't had any issues with Vekk or Ogden, though.

Edit: Oh yeah, and I wish they avoided AoE half as well as the enemies.

{IceFire} · Dec 24, 2007, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Meteor Shower is kryptonite for heroes, they just sit and take it...

Kusandaa · Dec 24, 2007, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by {IceFire}

Meteor Shower is kryptonite for heroes, they just sit and take it...

Pretty much any AoE is the bane of heroes. I flag them and un-flag them back right away - they usually start moving on their own.

But notice how some human players won't kite MS anyways...

sagilltwins · Dec 24, 2007, 10:31 PM // 22:31

SH on 1 enemy with 20% hp...

artay · Dec 24, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

I am amazed at vekks willingness to run into a mob and die!

Thats why I love him.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Dec 24, 2007, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Monks rezzing the in crusher in Jokonur diggings.

Thats just classic and its always rebirth.......makes me almost wanna bring any other rez.

Yes I do run my heros with a res, since I mostly just use the old WoH build

Draikin · Dec 24, 2007, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

What's the point in this thread? A list was made ages ago - ANET know how fail they are.

/agree

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

Exhausting Assault never gets used, ever.

It does, but only as an interrupt.

I disagree with a number of issues mentioned here. The AI can't read your mind and know which skill you want them to use Arcane Echo on. They also use Splinter Weapon near perfectly, but apparently some people want them to use it in the wrong way and cast it only on themselves. There's also nothing wrong with the AI using AoE attacks like SF only when they'll hit multiple targets (the only problem here is that they ignore their target lock when doing so).

MoriaOrc · Dec 24, 2007, 11:05 PM // 23:05

I had a new opportunity to witness hero stupidity yesterday while capping a skill in Arborstone.

Situation: While fighting Wardens, Tahlkora has become poisoned and is low on life. Because they were chasing her, she's got some enchantments on her. Battle ends and she has about 30-40 hp left, and at least 20 Energy.

Stupidity: She has dismiss condition on her bar. She has enchantments on (this needs repeating). For about a second I just sit there with my heroes in formation and her bar open expecting her to cast it. She doesn't (or anything else). So I check the box for Dismiss Condition. Still nothing. After about 3-4 seconds of sitting there, Tahlkora falls over dead rather then self healing and removing the condition that was killing her.

Gah stupid bots.

By the way they suck at using Dismiss Condition regularly because they only want to use it to remove conditions.

Kusandaa · Dec 24, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

I noticed something with Sab's 3 necro build yesterday, while doing HM Destruction's Depth with a friend. Running Olias as my Jagged Bones MM, along with BotM and Prot Spirit...

Olias casts BotM. His bar goes down by a bit, and Livia (my N/Rt restauration) heals him. Fairly normal. His next move? Casting PS on himself (like that's going to prevent the damage from BotM! Yeah right -_-). Then he death novas a minion... before casting PS on the same minion.

And this one isn't related to the 3 necro thing, but same tactics as Olias.

Tahlkora, set as a prot on my necro, om which I sometimes play MM... uses PS on me after I sac. Erm yeah... I don't need it since it's a SACRIFICE spell. However, I'd need it more than my minion who she casts it right after.

RedStar · Dec 24, 2007, 11:33 PM // 23:33

So many fails

Dunkoro standing in maelstrom....
Zhed casting Searing Flame before immolate.
Master of Whisper killing him self with blood ritual XD.
Magrid casting Splinter weapon on me...
Talhkora rezzing MoW, the only one that didn't have a rez...

And the worst thing they do : watch the scenery....one time they watched me die...evil heroes

Gregslot · Dec 24, 2007, 11:36 PM // 23:36

I still think they can make a better hero/henchman AI and want to.
So if you post what skills they dont use or use badly it would help a lot to gather information.
Some of you are just posting to post. So try to post some or even one, it would help a lot. =]

Kusandaa · Dec 24, 2007, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedStar

So many fails

Dunkoro standing in maelstrom....
Zhed casting Searing Flame before immolate.
Master of Whisper killing him self with blood ritual XD

And the worst thing they do : watch the scenery....one time they watch me die...evil heroes

Relates to what I was saying earlier with healer heroes. They heal everything else in priority... I don't remember exactly what I was doing, but we had a couple pets and allies in the party, and Dunk set as a healer. At one point, we were wondering why people were dying so much with 2 monk heroes, and no one seemed to rush more than usual. We noticed Dunk and the other hero (another Dunk I believe) were keeping the pets and NPCs alive rather than keeping us alive. (Ah, I remember now. We were doing Frostmaw; I was running packhunter and one necro had brought one to level it up for fun)

And that's also what I was saying with minions - even Togo and Mehnlo do the same thing in Vizunah Square, where people usually run 2 MMs. It's awful. They really should prioritize your party and important allies, not pets or minions...

Jaceb · Dec 24, 2007, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedStar

Master of Whisper killing him self with blood ritual XD

haha, damn. Olias killed himself with Blood of the Master the other day. First he was doing well minions up and all then next thing i know, he's dead. He was spamming it all the time until..

The Famous Zhed leeroy hasn't happened to me

. Melonni on the other hand is stubborn - say i want to attack an melee guy first and leave that non-dangerous caster for last. She runs off to hit that caster once and then - comes back. She did this nearly everytime, needless to say she's my least used hero.

Ashe. · Dec 24, 2007, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Put any skill on Ogden and it's a fail.